Bucket Seating

We have received a lot of emails and calls asking about the seating set up in the bucket. Here is an explanation :

The MADSEN comes with one black padded vinyl upholstered seat in the front. It is removable and has 2 seat belts.  The rear seat and 2 more seat belts can easily be installed.  The seats are set into place resting on a molded rim in the bucket.  Some velcro is used to prevent the seats from sliding around when they are not loaded up.  A quick word about safety: the belts may help your kids from moving around, keeping the bike more stable. They may also stop kids from climbing out while you are moving (personally, I think kids are smarter than that). The belts may also help smaller kids from sliding off their seat.  In the unfortunate chance that you are involved in a crash while hauling kids around, there is a ongoing debate about all bicycle child-carrying devices ie: bike trailer, rear child rack seat, handle bar child seats.  The debate is: If the bike tips, is it  better not to strap kids in, allowing them to just fall out onto the ground? Or is it better if they are attached to the bike?  Every crash will be different and it is impossible to know each different situation.

This is my opinion on this debate (and it has changed a few times): like clipless pedals or brake-free ski bindings, I see why you would not want your child to be attached to a bike during a fall. But no one wants a child to accidentally fall out off the bike, nor do you want an active child jumping around throwing the bike off balance and causing a crash.  Nor do you want a small child slipping off the seat and getting hurt inside the bucket. When I take my kids for a ride, I strap in my two-year-old and let my eight and five year olds go without a belt.  I have talked to my older boys and they know not to jump around, hang out of the bucket or stand up while we ride.  And Mom now has a strict rule that we always wear helmets!  Always ride safely when kids are on board.  Go crazy when you are by yourself, but take your responsibility  seriously when you are giving a ride to someone else.  Remember if you ride a bike you may fall over, if you drive a car you may crash if you fly in a airplane, it may fall out of the sky, go swimming you may drown, live and do nothing you may have a heart attack. So live a full life, and ride a MADSEN cargo bike!

Comments

[Julian]

Thanks for posting this ... I've been grappling with the restraints question too. Since our oldest is only 2, it's a no-brainer - she's belted in all of our various child seats, including the Madsen, for all of the reasons you note, plus the big one for us - toddler narcolepsy.

As for the Madsen belts, they do a fine job for the purposes you note, but I've been wondering what the physics would be in a crash, since they're attached a fair bit below a velcro'd seat, which seems to leave a long belt length in any crash strong enough to defeat two strips of velcro. I'm also on the fence about the risks/benefits of belts for older kids, but I think I'd like Drew to stay in the bucket if we crash.

I've been thinking about moving the belt mounting bolts to just below the benches, or even making a lower seat for younger kids on a low cushion in the bucket, for better upper body coverage in a tipover.

Did you guys experiment with alternate belt mounting points? What do you think about crashes leading to slack seat belts if the child pivots off the bench seat and the belts pull the velcro loose?

I'll post photos about any alternate seating arrangements we come up with ... we're still having a blast on our Madsen!

PS Can you post some info on your finalized rain cover? We can't wait for one up here in rainy Seattle ...

[Gavin W.]

My experience with belts in the Madsen is mixed. They are great for keeping very small children in place, but as Jared mentioned, probably not much more necessary for the bigger kids than a seatbelt holding me on the saddle. The kids are pretty good about staying put, but let me add a caveat. When the kids change position suddenly in the bucket, ie. shifting from side to side or standing up, it can impair the rider's control of the bike. This is not so difficult at speed, but can be disastrous when starting out or coming to a stop. The considerable momentum of the bike itself seems to help prevent higher-speed incidents, including a loss of traction on ice and snow.
As far as belts go, the kids know better than to fall out of a moving bike. I think that the chances of a high speed crash are pretty low with this bike. And most of my kids (from experience) are happier to be able to roll out of a bike that I clumsily dropped on my foot while trying to ride like I was on a different bike, than to be suspended on their sides from the belts.

Use them for wiggly toddlers and the like, but bigger kids are fine on their own.

[David hogard]

Thanks a lot for posting this I've been thinking about moving the belt mounting bolts to just below the benches, or even making a lower seat for younger kids on a low cushion in the bucket, for better upper body coverage in a tipover.

http://oopslaw.changjy.com/2009/11/13/how-to-prevent-bicycle-accident/

[Randy]

As for me it is a very useful post.
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[Gary]

As far as belts go, the kids know better than to fall out of a moving bike. I think that the chances of a high speed crash are pretty low with this bike. http://www.hotfileseek.com

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